With ShogunFX’s epic drama series based on James Clavell’s 1975 epic novel, veteran Japanese actor Hiroyuki Sanada’s work overcame all subtitle barriers and earned the show a huge worldwide fan base, including 25 Emmy nominations. Sanada plays Lord Toranaga, the ultimate strategist whose intricate web ultimately served to unite Japan in the 17th century. And Sanada was no stranger to the character, having played the role in 1989’s Oda Nobunagahe played Tokugawa Ieyasu, the man who in real life was the inspiration for the character Toranaga.
Sanada’s epic career began at the age of just 6 and he is best known internationally for films such as The Last Samurai, Speed Racer And High-speed traintogether with the shows Lost And WestworldHere, he describes what the role meant to him and how, as a first-time producer, it had deep meaning for him to bring a culturally accurate portrayal of Japan to life.
DEADLINE: Congratulations on your Emmy nomination. Shogun has become a real phenomenon with a total of 25 nominations. You have been on many talk shows, you were at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner …
HIROYUKI SANADA: Oh my goodness. Yes, what an experience for me. It was fun. And now I’m in LA. We are so happy. We got more nominations than we expected. And yes, I’m so proud of the whole crew and the cast.
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DEADLINE: I remember sitting down with Michelle Yeoh a few years ago, who you have of course worked with before.
SANDRA: Yes, twice!
DEADLINE: It was as Crazy Rich Asians came out and I remember her talking about what it meant to her, that it became such a big hit internationally with an all-Asian cast and that it was a sign of change in the industry. Now you have this incredible show that had 9 million viewers in its first six days. It has a 99% Rotten Tomatoes rating. What has that success meant to you?
SANDRA: Yes. It was a big surprise. At first we discussed a lot about what percentage of Japanese would be possible. Finally we decided on 70% with subtitles. It was kind of a gamble. But we also believed in the audience – in their knowledge, intelligence and imagination. And then, yes, it worked. So the response was bigger than we expected. But we were so happy about it and believe that this was the best way to authentically present our culture to the world. So yes, our decision was right, I think.
Katie Yu/FX
DEADLINE: I remember when Bong Joon-ho talked about it parasitehe referred to subtitles as “the one-inch barrier.” We are finally seeing that barrier fall.
SANDRA: Yes. A lot has changed, especially in the last ten years. I don’t think that would have happened 20 or 30 years ago. But fortunately, things have changed.
DEADLINE: You are a producer at Shogunand you played a big role in ensuring the cultural and historical accuracy of the show. I know you’ve been in many U.S. productions before that depicted elements of Japanese culture. How did this experience compare?
SANDRA: Yes, I grew up in Japan since I was a child actor and learned a lot from the directors and actors. And then I did a lot of samurai movies, including the model for this character Toranaga, Lord Ieyasu. I did that. And then I played Ishida Mitsunari, the (real) model role for the character Ishido Kazunari (played by Takehiro Hira), twice in Japan. So luckily I was able to learn a little bit about the background of that story. And also after I came to Hollywood, including The Last Samuraievery single show or film, I was doing consulting on our culture. So how am I supposed to explain to the Western crew, every single project, I was taught how to correct our culture. So all of that experience came in handy as a producer on Shōgun. I did everything myself before, but now I have the title of producer and then I can hire Japanese samurai drama specialists for every department: costumes, wigs, props, for every department. So for the first time, I had a team – so it was much easier and smoother. I could be placed between the Japanese crew and cast and the Western crew and cast. So I put all my life experience into the work. Shogunas an actor and as a consultant for 20 years.
For me it was an incredible experience. After I had everything prepared, I was able to relax and just enjoy it, as if I had been rewarded when I was in front of the camera. I just acted and then enjoyed just being there as a character and reacting to others. For me that was the best balance.
DEADLINE: Your character Toranaga is one of the most impressive strategists I’ve ever seen on screen. As you said, you previously played Tokugawa Ieyasu, the real man Toranaga is based on, but what do you remember most about the role of Toranaga?
SANDRA: I read a novel about Lord Ieyasu when I was a child – 13 or 14 or so. And when I started training to be an actor, I read that Ieyasu story too. I learned from him. For me, it was more about patience than strategy. Patience. If I had to choose one word for him, it would be patience. He waited and waited. Timing. He never rushed. That’s the feeling he taught me as a boy. And then I used it for my life. (I thought) ‘Don’t think about success in your 20s or 30s, think further back, your 40s or 50s, until then just go step by step, train and learn. Don’t rush.’ So that’s what Ieyasu taught me. And now I’m telling his story to the world. The young audience – the Japanese audience or the Western audience – the kids can feel that. Life is a long road. Don’t rush.
As a child actor, I saw a lot of actors. Some of them were successful in their early twenties and then they were gone. And some of them were slow starters but became great actors, respected actors, in their forties and fifties, and that’s the best thing. As a child, I thought, “Let’s go with the second one.” Ieyasu taught me that. So playing his role means going back to him. He plays a long game of chess. And finally checkmate.
DEADLINE: The show was originally planned as a miniseries. Then it was renewed for two more seasons and entered the Emmy drama series category. Season 2 will go beyond the source material from James Clavell’s novel. Can you hint at where you think this might lead? What might Toranaga do next?
SANDRA: I never thought about season 2 because we already used the novel in season 1. So of course I accepted it as a miniseries. And also as an actor, I thought, “I did my best. Done.” But as a producer, it’s very important to maintain this platform for the Japanese crew and cast for the next generation. And when I started living in LA 20 years ago, one of my missions was that I felt a big wall between East and West back then. In our generation, I want to tear down that wall and then build the bridge for the next generation. That’s my mission.
And now we have this great success and a great opportunity to produce more seasons. Why should I stop? Just in my opinion as an actor? No, no, no, no. My producer taught my actor, “You should obviously keep doing this for the next generation.” And that’s why I decided to keep this opportunity for season 2 and 3. And it’s a great opportunity for the young actors and the crew.
So we don’t have novels anymore, but that means a certain freedom for the writers. We have history. We have real role models and we know what happened. There are so many episodes in history. So I hope the writers will enjoy that freedom. I think these things are already in our DNA. So with respect for (Clavell) and his style, they are freely creating original stories. I’m so curious and I can’t wait to read the first draft from them.
DEADLINE: Do you already know when you will start filming?
SANDRA: We hope sometime next year. Hopefully it will be next summer. The writers’ room is already running and they are creating all day, every day. So I am curious about their vision of Japanese history and culture. Of course, we create together. So when I read the first draft, I check our cultural aspects and erase any misunderstandings or stereotypes. I look at the script from a Japanese perspective. So much fun. Another long journey has begun.
DEADLINE: What would be your absolute dream role?
SANDRA: Always roles that I have never played before. For example, Romeo, Hamlet, Othello and finally King Lear. And then other roles require more research and learning. That would excite me every year.
DEADLINE: You mentioned Shakespearean characters. You were the first Japanese actor to play with the Royal Shakespeare Company and received an honorary MBE for that work.
SANDRA: Yes, it was the biggest challenge of my life. When I spoke Shakespearean English in front of an audience for the first time, I was of course nervous, but it was a great experience for me. I learned a lot. I learned how the mixing of cultures creates something new that no one has seen before. It is difficult, but important and interesting. Maybe that is why I am here now.
DEADLINE: What was the most meaningful and moving feedback you received about Shogun from fans?
SANDRA: Understanding our culture deeply. Sometimes more than the young generation of Japan. They are so curious and so eager to understand everything. And even though we speak 70% Japanese, the audience felt our character and emotions through our acting. Their cheering showed me that acting is acting. And language is just a language. People can feel something through acting. This gives us strength and energy again for the production of season 2 or 3 and for any other project from now on. Language is no longer a big obstacle.
