Senior arts reporters Hafsah Abbasi, Sarina Bell and Afton Okwu talk pink cowboy hats and Outside Lands on the festival grounds. Their conversation has been edited for clarity.
Sarina: My dears, what do we think of this festival?
Hafsah: Oh, is it recorded?
Afton: It is been Recording. Is that Post Malone?
Sarina: Absolutely not.
Hafsah: This is mail.
Sarina: Shut up.
Afton: This festival really confirmed for me that country music has taken over. And that has happened before, but as a reluctant country fan, I was a little disturbed by the sudden cultural obsession. With Post Malone’s announced “special country set,” it feels pretty confirmed! We’re also seeing all those pink cowboy hats for Chappell Roan.
Sarina: Do you see this as something specific to Outside Lands or a worldwide phenomenon?
Afton: I see it as a American Phenomenon, I don’t know if it is worldwide. I Do I have a theory that country music’s takeover of the 2020s pop genre for Trump’s presidency is the same as rap music’s takeover of the 2010s pop genre for Obama’s presidency (laughs), but we don’t need to make that the subject of this discussion.
Sarina: Holy shit (laughs) It’s really funny because I feel like this is a very liberal festival and that in a very peculiar way relates to Chappell Roan, a very queer progressive artist. It’s funny, I feel like the people I know don’t gravitate towards country, but the artists they like do. And I wonder why artists want to move into country.
Afton: Correct.
Sarina: I suspect that in some ways country fans’ relationship with country is more comfortable than, say, pop fans’ relationship with country. And if I were more suspicious, I would say that it has to do with the pressure of standard on pop stars and their desire for a more tangible aesthetic. Country bills itself as a humanizing genre – whether that’s true or not, I don’t know.
Hafsah: On the subject of Chappell, people have talked a lot about how this year has seen the rebirth of the likable pop star. And I’ve seen that attributed specifically to Chappell and her star image, which is based on the idea that she signed to a record label, got kicked out and came back. She’s real Because she fought.
Sarina: Interesting.
Hafsah: She is more authentic because until recently she lived what people would call a working class life.
Afton: Oh, really! I I feel like I’ve experienced a resurrection of the unattainable pop star. I’m not necessarily a Sabrina Carpenter fanbut I find her fascinating. To me, she’s trying to get as far away from the image of a pop star that you can identify with. And while I think Chappell Roan has this very likable image behind the scenes and in her lyrics, she’s also incredibly cheesy. And then there’s Charli XCX, this huge, cheesy figure – yes, in a way that’s not flawless – but not in a way that’s trying to be identifiable.
Hafsah: It’s interesting that you use those two figures because I think you’re right that both images are larger than life in different ways. But also because I’ve seen music writers refer to those two artists as marking the return of the identifiable pop star. I think they’re a balance between the two.
Sarina: We seem to demand suffering and unattainability from our pop stars at the same time. I wonder what it is about different pop stars that makes their fans want different things? Maybe it has something to do with beauty ideals – that there is something about Sabrina Carpenter’s blondeness and beauty that makes her inherently unattainable.
Hafsah: I agree.
Sarina: Going back to the pink cowboy hat for a minute, there’s a question of whether it’s about identification or escapism, but I feel like it’s a kind of escapism. That cowboys are an American myth. Just like UFOs are an American myth and pop stars are going to have their “alien” era. Country is a shiny new form of escapism.
Afton: Totally agree, that’s why… I think we’ll talk about my theory. (laughs) I trace the rise of the cowboy aesthetic to Lil Nas X in 2019, and I see the origins as an ironic liberal “get-up” that arose from the growing nationalism in the United States. And as it continued to be used and co-opted, it just dissolved into a style. Last night I saw someone wearing a t-shirt that said “J’adore Cowboys.” (laughs)
Sarina: We could write a whole article about the graphic t-shirts at this festival, with the “Kalama Brat” shirts we saw. I think it’s funny that Charli XCX was the ghost of Outside Lands. Because she’s such a pop icon, but also because of the SF Gate article speculating if Kamala would be at the festival. She literally became the ghost. Where is she? Where is Kamala? (laughs)
Afton: Correct, because she is not at the Lands End stage.
Sarina: Is she on Twin Peaks? Is she on Casa BacardÃ? I don’t know!
Afton: Now that our time here is coming to an end, have all your hopes and dreams come true?
Hafsah: The hopes were not so high, the dreams did not become crazy. (laughs)
Afton: I had a lot of fun.
Sarina: It’s cool to be in a place and time that so many people have been waiting for, and planning their outfits and hair washes for. It all fits well with Outside Lands, although… festivals are weird as hell.
Hafsah: Yes, they are.
Sarina: We should give people an overview of the area.
Afton: We’re sitting in the media tent, just a stone’s throw (laughs) from the Post Malone country special. And he seems to be having a lot of fun.
